Dana's Interview with Hariprem Part 2
Interview with Hariprem
by Dana Indāne
Revolution of Awakening Part 2
Dana: Do you think the educational system might change in the future?
Hariprem: Of course! All the children need to learn meditation. And if the parents do not want… (he laughs) actually the children are much more pure and much more easy to learn. They do not have all that luggage on their shoulders, so it is much more easy for children to learn. Parents have already invested so much in education. Myself I did 10 years at university, and I had diploma, and I had a good job at society. And somehow it is a little bit difficult to drop it all, and say: „ ok, no I am going to wash floors and do the dishes and come back to a more simple way of life”. But I felt it was such a liberation at the same time, it gave me wings. When I dropped all my education I got my wings back.
Dana: And how Tantra interprets global problems like poverty, health issues, child labor, lack of education and also the problems that we easily see all around – violence at home, alchocol, drugs? Is it all connected? Also the economic crisis in Latvia – everybody talks about it. What can we do? People are trying to work with environmental issues, social issues, health issues, there are many organizations. And they do a good job. But what can we do as individuals, how can we help for these global issues?
Hariprem: Wake up! And forget about global issues. You need to come to realize who you are! The Divine Being that you are! And that will be the best help for the global issues. Because you are going to be a beacon of light in this world of darkness. The world needs light. It is so in darkness , and you can go on trying to repair the darkness - this is what we do when we start to help alchacolics, when we start to help drug addicted people. What we try to do is repair darkness. It is not possible. You need to bring light. So everybody has individual responsibility to become a beacon of light. And it looks like a bit indirect, but it can deal with all the war and all the poverty.
Listen, it is not your creation, it is the management of this planet that has been in hands of politicians who were not in service of humanity. They were in service of their own power, their own ambition and in the service of certain power organizations who are just exploiting the people. You can not change that, you can not fight that, but you can become a beacon of light. You can spread joy in this world of darkness. This is what the world needs and this helps people directly in their souls. The problem is not in alchocol or politics, or whatever, the problem is – we need to find the soul back! And there will still be people trying to be in power, trying to earn more money at the cost of other people. Let them go in their misery. That is their problem. We do not have to listen to these people. We need a little courage because these people have the power, these people have the armies, these people have the police, you need a little courage to step out of this establishment. Because establishment is very controlling, and little courage is needed.
And also – it is not a serious thing, it is a playful thing. We start to enjoy the challenge of it. And not just feel fear: „oh, maybe police will do this, or maybe the government will do that”. We are living in so many fears. And this blocks the opening of our hearts. You can not be in love and fear at the same time. You need to come out of fear and step into love. Love knows no fear. That is amazing! Everybody knows that the moment you have been in love even if for five seconds, you know there is no fear. You know that you are on top of the world, love is the greatest power, much more powerful than all the atomic bombs.
Love, Sex, Life.
Dana: Love is a very beautiful issue. But being in love towards man or a woman can be very tricky – sometimes you think you are in love, but actually this is just a play of our ego.
Hariprem: In fact when you fall in love this is true. It is a true force, and it is so scary that then the mind comes in: „oh, but what if this and what if that”, and so on… Because we can not handle this power, the moment it is really happening, it is a real force. Everybody knows it. And then the ego, the mind comes in to control it. We are so scared to go into love. We are so scared to surrender to love, because we know it is overwhelming and it will erase us completely. So it is not that we do not know love! At the moment it happens, we are simply too scared to allow it.
Dana: What are the possibilities to experience transformation when being alone and in a relationship? Many people are single and they want to go inside themselves. And some people are in couple and if they are lucky, both of them want to go into relationship with awareness and love. Can you comment on both?
Hariprem: I think everybody needs to experience both. You need to have time to be alone, and you need to have time also with a partner. Life itself will decide for you. What often happens is – when somebody is alone, instead of enjoying the aloneness and freedom that aloneness brings, we start to miss the company, so we can not really enjoy to be alone, we are too much missing the company. And when we are in the company, we start to miss to be alone, the freedom of aloneness. So we can not really enjoy the company that we have. This is a common state of mind for most people. You are in the relationship, in the beginning it is ok, but very soon you start longing for more freedom. Maybe more men have this than the women, I am not so sure, but it often happens more to men; that men look more for freedom, more than the women.
To be together with your partner, if you have not learned to be with yourself, being in love with your self, it is very difficult. Because if you do not love yourself, you are expecting the love from the other. You are all the time looking for this confirmation from the other, for love from the other. Because you have not learned to give it to yourself. And this is a very bad condition for relationship. Mostly it is with a partner who is on the same level. The partner also expects from you that you give love, to fill up his/her neediness or emptyness. So than you have two people who are asking and nobody is getting to learn to give love. It is very difficult. It becomes even impossible. But if you have been alone and you have loved yourself and in your aloneness you feel life is rich and you enjoy every day, then you have something to share. And then you will find a partner who has also something to share. Because we always meet partners on the same level. Then the relationship can become very beautiful, because you start to share. You do not look to dominate the other, you do not look to manipulate the other, there is full respect for the other and then a beautiful relationship is there.
Dana: What about freedom? It seems to me being a question of being free from your own ego, isn’t it? And I guess this is how one can give freedom also to another person, not putting him or her in a chain?
Hariprem: This is mostly because for us, Love is mostly sex. And when you have sex with a person then somehow the possessiveness comes in. If love happens in the heart it is totally natural to give freedom to yourself and to the other, but if love happens just at the level of sex, it is not yet love, it is simply a possessiveness, it is an attachment, it is a physical string that you can not let go. And then of course it is very difficult to give freedom to each other, that is why there is so much jealousy, it is not because there is love, it is because of sex without love.
Dana: And what is sex?
Hariprem: Sex is basically life. Sex is life energy, so sexual energy keeps us alive. We are like animals, if we want to be fully alive, we need to be wild without morality. Morality comes in because of society, because of certain rules in the world. In our physical body we are just animals; if that energy can be lived without any shame, guilt and self control, then this is a beautiful first step to a rich life. From a sexual body, full of orgasmic energy the lotus of your heart can come to flower. The physical body is the manure, the nourishment for the flower of the heart to blossom. Energy is needed for us to come in the heart because the heart alone, if we are just loving, it is floating in the air, it has no roots. Sex gives us roots in the physical reality, and then the heart can be a flower in the spiritual reality. Thus the spiritual and physical dimensions are bridged.
Dana: Can we divide sexual from other energies, or is it just different forms of one energy?
Hariprem: This is energy on different levels. So what we look in Tantra is transformation of energy. We have basic, fundamental, physical energy, gross vibration, like a lower vibration. The spiritual energy has a higher vibration. Love has a higher vibration. So what is transformation? To use the low vibration energy and to create from that lower vibration a higher vibration, without any condemnation of the lower vibration. If you condemn sex, you also condemn the potential that sex has. The potential is love, and love is our Awakening. So Awakening without sexual energy is almost impossible. Like you want to grow a flower and cut it’s root. It won’t live very long. So it is very simple.
Dana: How can people accept this energy without feeling guilt and shame? What is the practical way? Should one practice Tantra or other meditations?
Hariprem: It depends on where you are with yourself. Some individuals - they have already freedom with sex. If you look now with a whole opening of sex – pornography, partner exchange, internet dating – there is so much already happening on the level of sex. People are experimenting sex. The good question is – if it happens without shame or guilt? Maybe deep inside they feel like they are sinners. This is what church has been teaching for 2000 years. Sex is a sin – and we can not erase it so easily. So, how to erase this idea of sin? Maybe you need to do a Tantra group. So you can see that sexual energy is celebration. That you can enjoy it, and you do not have to go into fucking. What pornography shows is sex without the heart, which is below human, this is what animals are more doing. And we are running after it and humanity is obsessed with this. And it is not wrong, because they have to react on 2000 years of supprestion. Now it has come to an overdosis of sex, so let everybody go into these overdoses, it is also fine, and then you come to a point that sex becomes completely meaningless. Sex for the sake of sex is completely meaningless. And then some people wake up to a new vision that sex is there to open to Love. Because Love is the real thing, love is fulfillment of our Soul. Everybody is looking for love. And sex is the door.
And this is what we teach in Tantra groups, this is what people can also read... If people are ready, a person comes into their life to tell it, a book comes, a magazine comes, if a person is ready, he will find it. So this is how life functions – you get always what you are ready for, it is presented to you, and then you can decide wether you want to look at it or not. You can still close your eyes a few times, but sooner or later you have to open your eyes. (Hariprem and Dana laughs). We are not here to run after sex. We are here to share love.
Dana: Some people have the idea that a person can come to Tantra group only with a partner.
Hariprem: It is better to come alone (he laughs). Partners are so much controlling each other, so when you come with your partner you do not feel so free as when you would be alone. You feel a little bit more secure the way a prisioner feels secure in prison; when the prisioner is out in the field under the sky he feels also a little bit insecure and that is good. You need to be a little bit insecure, it is very good! That is a precious space – feel a little bit like going to school for the first time! It is very good. And to have a partner there is just a lack of courage.
There is another thing. Partners can also come to a special partner group, couple groups where they learn how to bring meditation into their relationship, which is another subject. If both are willing to open up to a spritual dimension then it is very beautiful – a man and a woman starts to meditate together and open what we call a Temple of Love. It is a space of Love where they can find a new connection between each other, between a God and a Goddess. It is possible for every couple.
Dana: So both ways are possible. But it is very important to experience being alone too, so that the person does not have to ask from the other person to give something, he or she can share and give him/herself.
Hariprem: Yes, a big understanding is needed in the world, that you can only find Love if you start to give it. And most of people are conditioned in such a way that they are waiting and waiting and asking and asking, they never take the first step themselves, and then that love never happens. It is simple – if you do not make the step with your love to another person, how can you expect that some love comes to you? You need to make the first step. Because the source of love is inside us: that source wants to flow, that source wants to share. And when that flow starts to run like a river, your life becomes so meaningful and so beautiful! And if you keep that source locked, your life is so dry. And this is a wrong understanding, it is almost epidemic – that we are asking the love to come to us. No, love belongs already to us – we just have to start to share it!
Dana: I think many people who are ready to share, they still want love to come back from the same person. Like having an exchange and not letting it go naturally where love is needed or receiving when love is ready to come back.
Hariprem: Yes, we bring our own agenda in this River of Love. The River of Love wants to love, wants to share, wants to flow, and then our agenda or our ego or our mind comes with :”I want to love only this person.” Then you have many conditions and it becomes a bargain. No, love is not a bargain – then you have killed it already before it has started! (Hariprem laughs).
Dana: People who start Tantra path, who are new to it, discover a big source of power, a practical tool to access the energy. But it can also come into hands of a person who is not ready or does not know where to utilize it. So, where to direct this force, how to use it with awareness? Should it be creativity, art, family, society, teaching, even business? Is there a possibility to choose where to direct it in and how? Through intuition? Or maybe for a service for a better world, community, own life?
Hariprem: First of all, the power is not specially coming from sexual energy. The power comes from approaching the sexual energy through consciousness and love. Because if you just approach the sexual energy, then you end up.... seeing a pornography site on the internet and see what happens then – you become completely obsessed by it and your life becomes such an obsession of a sexual pleasure, that it does not bring you anywhere.
In the first instance it is approach with love and consciousness, the second it is approached by unconsciousness. So many people already approach this power of sex very unconsciously and it creates a big sex-obsession. Sex in Tantra is a sacred force. Now in the world, sex has become very unsacred. There is no sacredness in it anymore. So humanity has gone with their life energy to the lowest. The lowest means the furtherest away from divine essence. The life energy is given by God, by the Divine, it is a gift, and what they do is just go for bodily pleasure. So, humanity can not fall deeper than that because below all the physical there is nothing, physical is foundation. Now we have to rise from that foundation.
What we can do to make it creative is to go with consciousness, and this is your freedom. If you want to use it unconsciously, you can do that, there is nobody to judge, no police, so some people use it for power and they are abusing others, and they have been creating wars. This is also coming from sexual energy. The certain power that Hitler or Napoleon had, it is a sexual energy directed in an insane way towards violence and destruction. This is individual responsibility, everybody is free, but now there is 2012 and a change into the Heart is needed to happen. There is already so much war and violence, so much suffering that more and more people will see this direction of destruction, we have suffered already for thousands of years. Now we have to become creative in the sense that we make life more beautiful, we have to make this planet more beautiful. It is not that we are separate; when you wake up for creativity you see we are together with friends, together with brothers and sisters, you are not looking for your individual motives anymore. You look for what others also need, and you step into this change, your creativity and love for a higher vision, a higher purpose. Let’s say – to create paradise on this planet, a paradise where people live in a shared responsibility. It can be so beautiful, a possibility is there. So, this is what we have to do – to create a beautiful planet Earth.
Dana: And I guess it can manifest in different forms, because everybody can do different things. Somebody is better at cooking, another makes arts, plants trees etc.
Hariprem: Of course! And it is unbelievable! Everybody has their unique qualities and unique skills and talents. Nobody is higher or lower, everybody is given the chance, everybody is so unique in their contribution to the humanity. And it is the first time that this chance comes to this humanity, that every individual can be respected in their uniquness. It has never been like that. This is the time to wake up to that new quality.
We have always lived in a hierarchy, somebody was higher and dominated somebody that is lower. This is ugly. No human being is higher than the other. It is so ugly, this structure of the past has been so ugly, people who are on top dominating people who are below. In fact we are all equal. For the divine eye we are all equal.
Of course you have a different type of life if you are a king or you are a beggar, but it does not mean that one is higher or lower, it is a different experience in a physical body on this planet. And everything is respected. And if this happens - the king will dissapear and the beggar will dissapear. Both. Because they are symptoms of a structure that is made of hierarchy. But we are just friends. And the beggar and the king can hug each other, and they can become friends. There is no disctinction between them.
The biggest illusion is that I am separate. I am not a part of the others, of a whole. When you look through meditation - and that is why everybody needs to meditate - when you look through the eyes of meditation you see that we are all one, there is no wall between me and you; this wall is a belief system of our mind, our ego. And when you look more from a deeper vision you see that there is just space. We are a whole space of love, this is real! And the wall is just an illusion, it has created so much misunderstanding, but it is actually a soap bubble, it does not really exist. It is not our reality, our reality is that we fly in the same sky. This is our reality.
Dana: Is it possible to see and accept reality through Tantra and meditation?
Hariprem: The reality we see now is just a game. Just a Leela, a divine play that helps humanity to wake up. It is that even the economical crisis, it is just an illusion, because in a deeper dimension, in a more true dimension of our being we are all one in the divine, but we are acting after certain rules and we do it very seriously. We forgot completely that connection, but it is still there. Without that connection you would be dead instantly. All your life comes from your soul, whether you know it or not, it is not important. But you have ignored the source where all the energy comes from, and you just let the mind to rule you. Mind is ruling and ruling us and we even do not know why we are going here, why we are running for money, why we go shopping, we do not know at all why we do this. We have become robots of society which is consumptive, looking for materialistic pleasure, which is so short. If we buy a new dress, you can enjoy it one or two times, and it is finished. You have to buy another dress. Shopping is so meaningless. And now the only religion in the world that I can see is shopping. It is the only thing when people suddenly become alive. The girls go shopping and feel so happy, for what? They do not get anything. So, it is time to wake up, do something more real. (Hariprem laughs)
Dana: This answers my questions about what is God, what is human, why are we here and what is all this process.
Hariprem: We have to take this as a play also – why we are on this Earth? We are so serious! (Hariprem laughs) And we are trying to help humanity, and we have social issues that we have to look into to improve the world being, and welfare of downthrodden people, who have less chances than us. All games of social workers trying to help so called poor people with less chances – what is this game? It is another ego game. We are so serious, we want to raise the level of quality of life in the world, and what we are doing – we are just helping others and we forget ourselves. There are so many organizations – Greenpeace, Amnesty International and smaller organizations – all these people they have good intentions, but they do not know what is love, they do not know what is living in no-mind. They do not know their divine nature and with good intentions they are creating more chaos in the world. Because they are so fighting! Certain people are having power, other people fight against this power and together they keep fight going. Fight means destruction, fight means clash. Fight does not mean melting, fight does not mean embracing, so even with all the good intentions they are still not on love.
There is a saying that is very meaningful: „The road to hell is made with good intentions”. Everybody is full of good intentions but it all leads to hell. It does not lead to heaven. The only thing that leads to heaven is to come to know yourself and to find the source of love in yourself. You do not have to help others. If you help others you also take the responsibility away from others. For example, in Holland there is a social security, so if you do not have work, you get the money. If the money would not be there the people would have a challange to be more creative to make the money, it is a challenge for creativity. Now they take away that challenge. And a person falls asleep, he is no more alive, creative, you take away that chance. And it happens on all levels, I am sure also in Latvia. So many organizations taking care about people, who you think can not take care about themselves. But everybody should take care about their own business, too much interference is going on. Politicians interfere in private and spiritual spheres, everybody is interfering everybody’s elses life, it would be a good start if everybody would start looking at their own life! (He laughs).
Dana: The last question – about the Inner Fire and Ligo Tantra group in Latvia. What it will be about, why should people attend it?
Hariprem: It is an invitation, so if people want to have more fire in their lifes, they are invited. If people want to live on a more low profile life level, then ok, they do not have to come (he smiles). The thing is when you open your heart, there is such an energy! And we are all scared. Why we are scared? Because we are conditioned to be scared, we have so many control mechanism that have been put in our system in the first 2 or 3 years of our life. If the baby is too loud or if a baby is too happy, or if a baby touches his or her sexual organs, or if a baby does kaka or pipi, almost everything he does is wrong, and mama and papa is on top of him to make a false person out of him. The baby is authentic.
Now this invitation for Tantra Ligo is to become again authentic, erase all this control program that your parents and the society have put on top of your authenticity. We have to throw it off, we have to throw completely all that luggage in a garbage bin, so we are again authentic the way we are born. We find back our inner child – pure, rebellious, wild. We have to find it back. Otherwise this is just a life of a slave. We want a life of a master, so everybody can be his own master without shame and guilt. These are the tricks - why we can not be fully alive, because if we are too happy, we feel guilty. If we are doing something about sex, we feel dirty and shameful, this is all that education system has put in us. We are just like computers and they have put programmes in us that this is wrong, and this wrong, and then all your system freaks out – ah, this is all wrong!
In the group you start seeing that this is actually not wrong. So you start to throw these programs out. And you come back to your authentity. You can be authentically, uniquely yourself. Everybody is so beautiful when they have a courage to be themselves. So the only thing you need is the courgage to be yourself and erase all the programs that have been put on you. Because everybody else knows better – everybody tells : ”if you listen to me then you will be happy.” No,no,no! Erease all these voices, because your wisdom is inside you and your celebration is inside you, and your love is inside you. So you need to throw out all the rubbish that others have put inside you. This is a big job, and the group will help you. Then you come to your Inner Fire and only through your Inner Fire you can be happy…
♥ ♥ ♥
Tantra Ligo Event
21-24 June 2012
at Purgaili Guesthouse, Smiltene